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« dancerly peripatetics: movement research festival '08 | Main | the many faces of mr turturro »

2008.06.06

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LV

I wrote about all this in an article in TDR from a few years ago, if you're interested. And it's a discussion I'm welcome to go further into.

Links of London

The chairs were set up like miniature constellations throughout the space, dispersing our gaze distinctly away from the musicians,Links London

sharkskin girl

Snarky,
You're totally right about how Marina's performances brought out the exhibitionism in the audiences -- Johanna Burton writes about that, too, in Artforum, particularly in re Seedbed.

Love the fact that you were 'caught in the moment' as it were -- you should definitely find the image.

Best,
sharkskin

Snarky

Well sharkskin, you've caused me to realize why I enjoyed MA's SEEDBED so much: because it was deeply uncomfortable in so many ways!

I might be a closet masochist, but I look back fondly now on cringing in embarrassment when I saw people whom I knew at the Guggenheim. I was surprised at how *many* people I recognized. I was also surprised at how many people came out to hear Marina come in general. It felt like the public perverts society for a while, but then I totally started to enjoy being there and watching people react in their own ways to her voice and presence, or whatever (perhaps the cameras)? I think the event brought out a lot of exhibitionism in the audience, so that they became as much a part of the performance as Marina...

I was also surprised to find myself thinking that "being there" *does* matter. Despite the mountains of documentation that people took away from that event, I don't think it was able to capture the experience that I had as I literally *hid* behind a wall for a while when the surveillance became too overwhelming. Or the feelings I had in the circle, when I finally gave myself over to Marina's voice and directions.

Documentation can do a lot of things, but when I reviewed SEEDBED footage on the monitors the night that I came to see another piece of Abramovic's, it seemed so alienated, distant, and divorced from what I had experienced a few nights earlier. The documentation (at least the visual loop that was running at the Guggenheim) did not convey the spirit of that event to me at all.

PS: I learned at a conference last year that a photo of me is published in one of the books documenting the event. I still have not seen it, but am oddly intrigued and unsettled by the fact that my participation was captured by others without my knowledge. But I would so much like to do it again if I could...

sharkskin girl

Snarky,
I do agree for sure that recorded materials can be a fascinating part of liveness; and that sometimes the liveness of a piece is predicated on that -- Alvin Lucier's I Am Sitting in a Room, for instance.

For me, though, the constant presence of Marina doing other performances throughout the seven nights via monitors, as well as the overt documentation of each night's current event did undo some of the immediacy of spectoral engagement for me -- knowing each night would be so well documented made it less necessary to attend to, in a way. Though I also agree that the voyeuristic nature during Abramovic's Seedbed was highly intriguing, the constant means of archival documentation going on (of both Marina and her audience) was a little freaky for me, not in a good way.

More to come, I'm sure--
Best,
sharkskin

Snarky

I didn't see the Acconci Seedbed, and admit that I am also quite fascinated with it. But I thought that Marina Abramovic's reconstruction (based on surviving documents and her own imagination) was very presence-full (and full of presents).

Sitting inside the circle with her, I really felt that she was giving her audience the gift of time (although time was limited). I also felt that she gave us permission to feel turned on, and to feel aroused by this usually totally un-erotic space of the Guggeneheim. For me, one of the most powerful things about the piece was the eroticized "surveillance culture" that surrounded it, with everyone looking at each other, taking notes, secretly photographing, pointing fingers, staring, lingering, etc...

Being there in the moment, I am pretty sure she didn't "fake it," although I wondered about that possibility a little bit beforehand. Still, throughout that whole time, she sounded totally sincere and committed to being "real." If she was faking it, she probably would have managed to have a lot more orgasms. I recall that she had two or three intense ones right at the start of the night, in the first hour or two. And then after that, things began to taper off till it was mostly her talking.

I didn't go to the first night and don't know about the prerecorded Nauman track, but I will check out your article. I don't think that prerecorded materials should categorically compromise your "live" experience, though. Recorded materials can certainly be a fascinating part of liveness. :)

sharkskin girl

Hello again, Snarky,

Unsatisfactory isn't exactly the same thing as shoddy -- a qualification I would never apply to Marina's well-constructed performances. However -- and this speaks to the sense of ghosting I was getting at in the post -- it was impossible for me to experience Seedbed through Marina's real-life performance after I had overimagined it through documentations of Vito Acconci's. It's a weird sort of romanticization of the not-having-been-there, I think.

That said, I think it's also important to compare and contrast the two versions of Seedbed: whereas Vito's was a bit more rough, Marina's was hyperperformed -- and her projected (could-be recorded) voice resonating through the space created, for me, some disjunct with the idea of her actually being there. Was she there? Was she, indeed, faking it? (An important part to remember as well is the overtly present mechanisms of documentation throughout Seven Easy Pieces -- and the prerecorded track to the Nauman that happened the night before Seedbed -- which compromised notions of presence, and presents, throughout the seven nights...)

I wrote about all this in an article in TDR from a few years ago, if you're interested. And it's a discussion I'm welcome to go further into.

Thanks, as always,
sharkskin

Snarky

". . . infamous Seedbed so unsatisfactorily reprised by Marina Abramovic. . ."

Wha-wha-WHAT?!

Unsatisfactory!? Well, I never!

What did you find so shoddy about MA's scintillating reenactment/reinterpretation?

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